I really don't understand the shooting-while-in-check rules: sometimes I'm allowed to shoot and it kills the thing that was checking me (good); other times it's not allowed, and instead I lose a shield (bad). I can't see any feedback wrt which one is going to happen, but it feels really bad when it doesn't let me shoot -- why not let me shoot either way *and* steal a shield? That way it's consistent. (Or am I missing something? I understand that it will let me shoot if I would kill the thing, but since whether I kill the thing or not involves random chance, how does the game (or the player) know which will result??)
Also, it seems like when I'm in checkmate (no souls, no safe moves, no possible kills) I still have to click three times to burn through shields and die.. why? If I'm in checkmate, ie there's no solution, it should just kill me -- the current behaviour feels weird/awkward and makes me think I'm missing something. Am I?
In situations beyond that, you can still fire - you just have to burn through all your shields first. (You get them all back after your shot, natch, assuming you lived.) There's a reason shield quantity is freely adjustable - once one is good enough at the game (or is already a chess grandmaster and isn't about to blunder), shields only get in the way.
With all the abilities/powers in the game, it can be REALLY HARD to determine whether a situation is truly hopeless or if there's a slight chance somewhere; the game ending on you automatically when there WAS a hope would be FAAAAAAR worse than what it does now, which is not even try to figure it out. I don't blame the devs on that one at all. Also, now that Black Mist is a thing, what you choose to do when it is hopeless - your "parting shot", often literal, as it were - actually can matter.
EDIT: You always get back all your lost shields after every single turn you take. Taking a shield AS you take a shot, as you suggest, makes no sense, so maybe that's what you were missing?
Yes you do! Go into your Itch library, then go into "My Purchases" on the left, and click on Shotgun King. It should be there.
You also received a mail from Itch yesterday to tell you about it and it has a direct link to that same place, if that's more convenient. Let me know if you find it!
Also, I have no idea if its even viable if you were to do it because of game balance, but how come ascension doesn't let you move over pieces with a bishop soul card, but the red book lets you move on rows and columns with a bishop soul card
Black Mist in beta is currently unbalanced in my opinion, especially has potential to be broken in harder difficulties, giving the player the ability of a "get out of jail free" card is broken, but also I definitely shouldn't be able to draw TWO or more of these cards. probably add drawback
Possible, but I'm unconvinced. Every copy of Black Mist one has is one less card they have to actually be more effective in battle and not get into hopeless situations as often; I'd think two copies of it would be worse than one for that reason, as surely it's diminishing returns. If anything, I'd suggest limiting Black Mist to one copy for the exact opposite reason - it's too WEAK to offer to the player once they already have one. If for no other reason than to SHUT UP all the whiners about "discovered mate", Black Mist is practically necessary; to the expert, it's a chance to escape when the game gets truly ridiculous (and sanity knows Black Mist often doesn't get one out of trouble, only delaying it a turn). To each their own, but I don't think it needs a drawback.
Apparently if you have secret heir active and no pawns on the board when the game starts, the game will softlock, trying to add an heir that doesnt exist.
I've found it too unbalanced, pawns evolve into the exact right thing to lock me every single time, not once I have seen an evolution which hasn't been imediatelly useful for a checkmate. Game can't recognise a checkmate/stalemate, when a player has no moves, no souls and cannot kill the piece which blocks him, he should lose, making the last move only to die makes no sense. The game let's me kill pieces even if it kills me, it should tell me if a piece behind the one I'm gonna kill is gonna kill me back instantly. Another complaint is about the spread, when one is side by side with a piece and then there's another enemy piece a couple squares away and in the same direction as the piece adjacent to you, how would the shots go arround the piece which is close to hit the far one? I've lost count of how many times I've died to an adjacent piece after my shots spread all over, even without using blunderbuss or extra barrel. nonetheless, outstanding idea, pretty fun game, despite all my anger, it kinda served as more incentive to win :)
We're already working on a linux port! The full game has a story mode with a boss, an ending, and 5 different difficulties, and it also has new cards that are not included in the demo version.
Does Unfaithful Steed work? cause I remember it not working when I got it with a knight soul card and it just ate it. I don't remember being able to move more
Yeah, I think I got it to work in the beta like you describe it, I didn't try to use the soul card, I just tried to do a further move. might've either been a bug or I just didn't do it correctly
If there's one thing I'd suggest, it's removing the feature where if you kill an enemy unit and it opens a checkmate, you lose. It doesn't feel very fair especially with a weapon that has as wide a spread as a shotgun. You could potentially kill an enemy you weren't even aiming at and get yourself killed that way. I'd consider at least warning if not remove that feature entirely.
I have accidentally killed an interposer and lost a run that way once. ONCE. I didn't ask for the game to be dumbed down in response. I smartened up instead. I also note that the spread of the gun is very much an intentional element of the game - that's why there are cards to control it! - so learning how to deal with it is part of the learning process. [insert comment about proper IRL firearm safety here]
Compromise then, have the kill shields warn you. It really stinks that this is a mechanic and the game at least does not warn you despite being fully aware it's something that happens. Frustrating especially with Blunderbuss. Plus remember the cards are random you get so it's not always within your control.
You can't always pick the cards, sure, but you always control where you fire... Besides, you're asking for something more complex than you seem to realize (though you're far from alone here in that regard :P). The shields are there to stop you from using your turn moving into or staying in a deadly spot. Checking to see if the spot you're in is safe but one you could make deadly is (besides clearly being a misplay on the part of the player) not so simple to program, especially now that there's a card that can fire a pellet outside even your selected firing arc. That's a lot of math slowing things down just to try dealing with a player skill issue; as it is, the shields aren't perfect, sometimes blocking 100% safe shots and NOT blocking 0% safe ones in rare cases, and that'd be tough to figure out without even going down the "discovered mate" route. So maybe avoid taking the card with "blunder" right there in the name until you can keep from doing so, and maybe always take Black Mist when you have the chance (which WILL save you from "discovered mate")? Good luck to any mod makers that try to "remedy" discovered mates - sure, it probably CAN be done, but it'll be a LOT of work... work better spent, in my opinion, learning the game and not getting themselves killed.
Wouldn't the programming of the shield protecting you from an opened checkmate just be similar to the programming of the opened checkmate itself? I think it's something that is being overestimated in its difficulty to create. Helps people get into the game too with more intuitiveness on an inaccurate weapon. Could always just play without shields if you're not interested in it so I am honestly confused why you are trying to make it a big problem.
i would like this feature as well, at least as a toggle, like with increasing/decreasing the shields you have, i've lost at least 5 runs to this and most of them were from being sniped by a rook at the other side of the board, although some were really obvious, like me killing an enemy that had a queen right behind it, i'm not a very strategic person who also sucks at chess, i just move without thinking most of the time tbh, although i'm used to getting skill issued with the amount of roguelikes i play, having this feature at least as a toggle would be nice, i'd understand and be fine if it wasn't added though, i'll just suffer until i learn to not
I think it would be good to have a warning thing for pins, but I don't think its good to remove that as a potential death. makes the gameplay loop more strategic and less just "shoot forward and get rid of the pawns" you actually have to pay attention to the end half of the board for a bit.
Really great game, scratches that rouge-like itch! I think for other people complaining about the difficulty, the key to avoiding simple and quick defeats is to avoid having a rook in the same vertical line as you. Most of my defeats have been from rooks I forget about being behind the area I'm shooting and then dying the next turn by them as I kill the piece in front of them.
I think adding some boards reflecting the different ways to play chess would be nice to add eventually, though currently I'd really like some kind of easy reset button and a way to get back to the menu while in a run. I rather not have to watch the animation of me loosing over and over, and would like to just be able to press "R" and reset the entire run or be able to get straight back to the menu to quit when I've had enough for the day.
Some sort of mechanism that lets me know I'm in checkmate and automatically makes me lose would be nice imo, 'cause having to figure that out yourself after trying all your shields and cards and whatever feels slightly demoralizing.
And I know it would be tricky to set up and balance with the inherent rng of the shotgun, but it would be nice if the shields would activate when I kill a piece and the piece behind it becomes in range and instantly kills me. I know it's mainly my fault for speeding through but I hate the runs that end that way because it doesn't feel fair even if it is.
Otherwise, it's a fantastic game, a fabulous set of twists on an ancient classic.
The shotgun RNG makes the first virtually impossible - as it is, shields will trigger when you CAN save yourself by shooting an attacker without moving out of their attack range, sometimes even if the kill is guaranteed. As it is I often have to burn through my shields intentionally before the game lets me fire. As for the second, well, shields are to stop you from killing yourself on YOUR turn, not the enemies' turn. Shields saving you on their turn would change everything. So to get what you're asking for, a shield would have to activate if there's a chance the shot you want to take will destroy an interposer. I wouldn't even want to think about coding that if I were the developer, and even as a player I'm not sure I'd want that. As you note, it's fair, and you know it's fair.
With the first one I was mainly talking about times when I don't have any shells loaded at all, and thus shotgun RNG has no chance to take effect. I'm fine with runs that end on shotgun RNG,those are very rare; however, about a fifth of my runs if I'm remembering correctly end with a checkmate I have no way of knowing about until I look at every possible move. I would rather the game just end there instead of letting me pick my poison.
I'm aware the rng of the shotgun would probably be too much to work around with the second one, but it was just a suggestion. It would maybe be a cool card upgrade for shields to activate on those sort of cases, but it would be a little broken as a general game mechanic, as you said.
The shields activating on the chance of an enemy's defeat by shotgun would be annoying, although one potential way it could be implemented is having the shield activate on a potentially dangerous move, but instead of completely canceling the move it brings up an "are you sure?" prompt. If you hit yes, the move proceeds, and you roll the dice... if you hit no, the shield is still spent, and it goes back to the 'select a move' phase. Again, just a suggestion, maybe not easy to code, but it would be a good thing for game flow in my opinion.
Genius design, lots of fun, people complaining about discovered mate have only themselves to blame for not paying attention to the board and need to GIT GUD. It's based on chess, people. You destroy the piece between you and an enemy rook, you deserve to fail. Maybe NOT destroy that piece? XD
I'm not denying the point of the game, I'm saying that a moment of not following it causing massive punishment is not very fun.
Imagine if Dark Souls was roguelike game. With no practice for the bosses you'd hardly ever progress. "GIT GUD" shouldn't apply to roguelike games, as there is little to no time for you to practice the unexpected one thing that you were expected to know before apparently.
There are going to be a lot of people coming from the game jam either not knowing how chess works, or not having paid enough attention to it to know about discovered mate. The frustration received from being punished for a game mechanic they did not know about is understandable, and should be prevented in some way.
And there already is a way to prevent it - the shields. If you make some stupid move by say, not seeing a piece all from across the board, not realizing you are being attacked, or just misclicking, the game will highlight the attacking pieces and spend a shield, instead of saying "GIT GUD" and ending your run. So a harder to notice possible attack should suddenly do otherwise? Just doesn't make much sense to me.
You're asking the developer to tackle a significant alteration to the game design as a result of a perfectly-fair challenge that might trip some players up ONCE, TOPS, if they're, you know, actually learning the game. And yes, it's an alteration. I mentioned this elsewhere - shields are NOT a way to prevent that "already", and I'll explain why: shields stop you from doing something potentially suicidal on YOUR turn due to enemy attack ranges at that moment, based on your attempt to move or not move. If you've destroyed an interposed piece and opened yourself to attack, it's now THEIR turn. It's too late for a shield. You had your chance to not be careless with a firearm [there's a life lesson in there, but I digress] and you reaped what you sowed. For a shield to stop that, the game would need to have a far more complicated mechanism that looks at what you're shooting at and calculating every possible combination of destroyed piece resulting from it, and then trigger a shield if there's the slightest chance any of those combinations could be lethal. If the dev wants to do that, more power to them - it'd be nice for me to not have to burn through shields before taking a shot 100% guaranteed to result in my survival despite sitting in an attack range (which is how I know the game doesn't currently calculate potential damage dealt when shields trigger). But if I were them, I'd remove shields from the game entirely before I'd even think of doing that! The player is the gamemaker's apprentice, and if they stop learning due to overdependence on the training wheels, then the wheels need to go.
Besides, needing to see the consequences of your moves in advance is part and parcel of chess - why should this game be any different? Frankly, I find it alarming how many people are complaining here about losing a game because of a mistake they made, demanding the game be changed to prevent that mistake (especially those that know losing that way is fair). It's like they don't even know what "game" means. Chess is already super polite in preventing someone moving into check (which I assume is why this game has shields in the first place); try going on a chess forum and suggesting the rules of chess be altered, with moving into ANY mate-in-one being similarly prevented. See where that gets you. But that's literally the non-digital version of what you're asking for. Feel silly yet?
If chess itself isn't up someone's alley, I don't know why they'd be hanging around here at all. It's not like there aren't several thousand other roguelikes out there. Heck, this same dev has another.
As for your comments on "practice", two things: first, "not being oblivious" isn't the sort of thing to which "practice" really applies; second, the entire arcade-game generation would like a word about what you think "practice" entails. Starting another run IS practice. To imply otherwise is so far beyond my comprehension not just of roguelikes but ALL games of all types, digital and otherwise, that I can't respond at all. For that reason, I'll be taking my leave of this conversation now. I hope what I was able to respond to has been educational.
If you move into a space seen by an enemys piece they will be able to attack you on their turn. This is no different for destroying a piece, the enemy can now see you, and will attack on their turn. Why would shields protect you from one easy to see scenario and not the harder to see one? It's hard to blame the player for being oblivious to something they didn't know about, even if it was a "learning experience" for them. All that "game mechanic" causes is needless frustration.
Seeing the consequences of your moves is a part of chess that's true, but this game is already different with shields protecting you from being careless.
I find a valid way to lose is not looking for a synergy in your pre-round upgrade choices, being forced into a situation where you have to take risks and failing to be lucky. But all situations where shields apply are ones where you are careless, and not being careless, again as indicated by the shields , is not part of being skilled.
The mechanic would not be hard to implement either. Just assume the piece you attacked is gone and check for enemy line of sight.
Hey can you make Wololo upgrade it will give player a chess piece what i come up is this
Rock : Shooting canon range 4 and the damage 2 in the center of hit and 1 for + direction then the rock cannot move for 1/2 turn. the shot cannot target enemy behind another chess piece
bishop : can attack sideway for 2 damage and 1 damage in the pierce side
pawn : dealing 2 damage and can immediately move after attack can upgrade to another chess piece when reaching enemy end line
knight: dealing 2 damage for each enemy between the L moveset
Queen : each round can take 2 hit from enemy piece without die so it mainly to blocking attack, refreshed for each round
if the wololo chess piece die they will gone forever or can resurrect after 1/2 round up to you dev for balance
This game would be good but the fact that you die when destroying a piece with another piece behind it really completely ruins the experience. If folly shields are a thing i don't understand why that isn't. So for now, this game is really unfun to play.
← Return to game
Comments
Log in with itch.io to leave a comment.
I really don't understand the shooting-while-in-check rules: sometimes I'm allowed to shoot and it kills the thing that was checking me (good); other times it's not allowed, and instead I lose a shield (bad). I can't see any feedback wrt which one is going to happen, but it feels really bad when it doesn't let me shoot -- why not let me shoot either way *and* steal a shield? That way it's consistent. (Or am I missing something? I understand that it will let me shoot if I would kill the thing, but since whether I kill the thing or not involves random chance, how does the game (or the player) know which will result??)
Also, it seems like when I'm in checkmate (no souls, no safe moves, no possible kills) I still have to click three times to burn through shields and die.. why? If I'm in checkmate, ie there's no solution, it should just kill me -- the current behaviour feels weird/awkward and makes me think I'm missing something. Am I?
Anyway, really fun and interesting game! :)
It freely allows you to shoot while in check if all the following conditions are met:
ah okay, thanks! That makes a lot more sense. :
In situations beyond that, you can still fire - you just have to burn through all your shields first. (You get them all back after your shot, natch, assuming you lived.) There's a reason shield quantity is freely adjustable - once one is good enough at the game (or is already a chess grandmaster and isn't about to blunder), shields only get in the way.
With all the abilities/powers in the game, it can be REALLY HARD to determine whether a situation is truly hopeless or if there's a slight chance somewhere; the game ending on you automatically when there WAS a hope would be FAAAAAAR worse than what it does now, which is not even try to figure it out. I don't blame the devs on that one at all. Also, now that Black Mist is a thing, what you choose to do when it is hopeless - your "parting shot", often literal, as it were - actually can matter.
EDIT: You always get back all your lost shields after every single turn you take. Taking a shield AS you take a shot, as you suggest, makes no sense, so maybe that's what you were missing?
If it's based on the assumption that the outcome is positive, you should probably guarantee that enough pellets hit to kill the piece.
I've already had a situation where it let me shoot and then I lost, and this sucked.
How do I get the steam key if I bought it here before it launched on steam?
Yes you do! Go into your Itch library, then go into "My Purchases" on the left, and click on Shotgun King. It should be there.
You also received a mail from Itch yesterday to tell you about it and it has a direct link to that same place, if that's more convenient. Let me know if you find it!
Does this work the other way 'round? i have been interested in the modding of the game but dont know how.
Also, I have no idea if its even viable if you were to do it because of game balance, but how come ascension doesn't let you move over pieces with a bishop soul card, but the red book lets you move on rows and columns with a bishop soul card
Black Mist in beta is currently unbalanced in my opinion, especially has potential to be broken in harder difficulties, giving the player the ability of a "get out of jail free" card is broken, but also I definitely shouldn't be able to draw TWO or more of these cards. probably add drawback
i NEED black mist to win the game. i am TERRIBLE at shotgun king.
Possible, but I'm unconvinced. Every copy of Black Mist one has is one less card they have to actually be more effective in battle and not get into hopeless situations as often; I'd think two copies of it would be worse than one for that reason, as surely it's diminishing returns. If anything, I'd suggest limiting Black Mist to one copy for the exact opposite reason - it's too WEAK to offer to the player once they already have one. If for no other reason than to SHUT UP all the whiners about "discovered mate", Black Mist is practically necessary; to the expert, it's a chance to escape when the game gets truly ridiculous (and sanity knows Black Mist often doesn't get one out of trouble, only delaying it a turn). To each their own, but I don't think it needs a drawback.
Hi, the demo is great and see that its coming to Steam.
Do you think you could make a version of your Patreon that gives out Steam codes for each of your games?
People with the itch version of the game will get a steam key after the release
Apparently if you have secret heir active and no pawns on the board when the game starts, the game will softlock, trying to add an heir that doesnt exist.
This is really well done. I love how it's designed. I also love how you went for Pico-8 aesthetic. Really neat!
give checks for potentially killing an enemy and opening up a checkmate PLEASE
I'd love a mobile version of this
But hey, if sugar game engine doesn't have mobile support, so be it
thank you for making amazing game.
are there any plans to support macOS?
Hi, yes it will!
So looking forward to the Linux release of this game!
very cool game :)
Shotgun King has that vibe of the King being tired of your shit, and goes on a rampage with a double-barreled shotgun.
I've found it too unbalanced, pawns evolve into the exact right thing to lock me every single time, not once I have seen an evolution which hasn't been imediatelly useful for a checkmate.
Game can't recognise a checkmate/stalemate, when a player has no moves, no souls and cannot kill the piece which blocks him, he should lose, making the last move only to die makes no sense.
The game let's me kill pieces even if it kills me, it should tell me if a piece behind the one I'm gonna kill is gonna kill me back instantly.
Another complaint is about the spread, when one is side by side with a piece and then there's another enemy piece a couple squares away and in the same direction as the piece adjacent to you, how would the shots go arround the piece which is close to hit the far one? I've lost count of how many times I've died to an adjacent piece after my shots spread all over, even without using blunderbuss or extra barrel.
nonetheless, outstanding idea, pretty fun game, despite all my anger, it kinda served as more incentive to win :)
the spread thing is pretty infuriating I must admit. everything else? skill issue
Would providing Linux build be viable? Also what is the difference between full game and the demo?
We're already working on a linux port! The full game has a story mode with a boss, an ending, and 5 different difficulties, and it also has new cards that are not included in the demo version.
Neat, looking forward to that.
Also, will buying the 5 dollar patreon optin give me access to this game?
Yes it will!
will you have it permanently?
Yes, you get to have it forevermore!
finally finished the demo. Very polished. Will maybe get the full version soon
Does Unfaithful Steed work? cause I remember it not working when I got it with a knight soul card and it just ate it. I don't remember being able to move more
It buffs your non-soul moves while you have the soul in reserve, not the soul movement itself.
Yeah, I think I got it to work in the beta like you describe it, I didn't try to use the soul card, I just tried to do a further move. might've either been a bug or I just didn't do it correctly
If there's one thing I'd suggest, it's removing the feature where if you kill an enemy unit and it opens a checkmate, you lose. It doesn't feel very fair especially with a weapon that has as wide a spread as a shotgun. You could potentially kill an enemy you weren't even aiming at and get yourself killed that way. I'd consider at least warning if not remove that feature entirely.
I have accidentally killed an interposer and lost a run that way once. ONCE. I didn't ask for the game to be dumbed down in response. I smartened up instead. I also note that the spread of the gun is very much an intentional element of the game - that's why there are cards to control it! - so learning how to deal with it is part of the learning process. [insert comment about proper IRL firearm safety here]
Compromise then, have the kill shields warn you. It really stinks that this is a mechanic and the game at least does not warn you despite being fully aware it's something that happens. Frustrating especially with Blunderbuss. Plus remember the cards are random you get so it's not always within your control.
You can't always pick the cards, sure, but you always control where you fire... Besides, you're asking for something more complex than you seem to realize (though you're far from alone here in that regard :P). The shields are there to stop you from using your turn moving into or staying in a deadly spot. Checking to see if the spot you're in is safe but one you could make deadly is (besides clearly being a misplay on the part of the player) not so simple to program, especially now that there's a card that can fire a pellet outside even your selected firing arc. That's a lot of math slowing things down just to try dealing with a player skill issue; as it is, the shields aren't perfect, sometimes blocking 100% safe shots and NOT blocking 0% safe ones in rare cases, and that'd be tough to figure out without even going down the "discovered mate" route. So maybe avoid taking the card with "blunder" right there in the name until you can keep from doing so, and maybe always take Black Mist when you have the chance (which WILL save you from "discovered mate")? Good luck to any mod makers that try to "remedy" discovered mates - sure, it probably CAN be done, but it'll be a LOT of work... work better spent, in my opinion, learning the game and not getting themselves killed.
Wouldn't the programming of the shield protecting you from an opened checkmate just be similar to the programming of the opened checkmate itself? I think it's something that is being overestimated in its difficulty to create. Helps people get into the game too with more intuitiveness on an inaccurate weapon. Could always just play without shields if you're not interested in it so I am honestly confused why you are trying to make it a big problem.
i would like this feature as well, at least as a toggle, like with increasing/decreasing the shields you have, i've lost at least 5 runs to this and most of them were from being sniped by a rook at the other side of the board, although some were really obvious, like me killing an enemy that had a queen right behind it, i'm not a very strategic person who also sucks at chess, i just move without thinking most of the time tbh, although i'm used to getting skill issued with the amount of roguelikes i play, having this feature at least as a toggle would be nice, i'd understand and be fine if it wasn't added though, i'll just suffer until i learn to not
I think it would be good to have a warning thing for pins, but I don't think its good to remove that as a potential death. makes the gameplay loop more strategic and less just "shoot forward and get rid of the pawns" you actually have to pay attention to the end half of the board for a bit.
Really great game, scratches that rouge-like itch! I think for other people complaining about the difficulty, the key to avoiding simple and quick defeats is to avoid having a rook in the same vertical line as you. Most of my defeats have been from rooks I forget about being behind the area I'm shooting and then dying the next turn by them as I kill the piece in front of them.
I think adding some boards reflecting the different ways to play chess would be nice to add eventually, though currently I'd really like some kind of easy reset button and a way to get back to the menu while in a run. I rather not have to watch the animation of me loosing over and over, and would like to just be able to press "R" and reset the entire run or be able to get straight back to the menu to quit when I've had enough for the day.
What are the conditions for the secret ending?
is there any way that you could have a list of all the card upgrades for both sides available?
Some sort of mechanism that lets me know I'm in checkmate and automatically makes me lose would be nice imo, 'cause having to figure that out yourself after trying all your shields and cards and whatever feels slightly demoralizing.
And I know it would be tricky to set up and balance with the inherent rng of the shotgun, but it would be nice if the shields would activate when I kill a piece and the piece behind it becomes in range and instantly kills me. I know it's mainly my fault for speeding through but I hate the runs that end that way because it doesn't feel fair even if it is.
Otherwise, it's a fantastic game, a fabulous set of twists on an ancient classic.
The shotgun RNG makes the first virtually impossible - as it is, shields will trigger when you CAN save yourself by shooting an attacker without moving out of their attack range, sometimes even if the kill is guaranteed. As it is I often have to burn through my shields intentionally before the game lets me fire. As for the second, well, shields are to stop you from killing yourself on YOUR turn, not the enemies' turn. Shields saving you on their turn would change everything. So to get what you're asking for, a shield would have to activate if there's a chance the shot you want to take will destroy an interposer. I wouldn't even want to think about coding that if I were the developer, and even as a player I'm not sure I'd want that. As you note, it's fair, and you know it's fair.
With the first one I was mainly talking about times when I don't have any shells loaded at all, and thus shotgun RNG has no chance to take effect. I'm fine with runs that end on shotgun RNG,those are very rare; however, about a fifth of my runs if I'm remembering correctly end with a checkmate I have no way of knowing about until I look at every possible move. I would rather the game just end there instead of letting me pick my poison.
I'm aware the rng of the shotgun would probably be too much to work around with the second one, but it was just a suggestion. It would maybe be a cool card upgrade for shields to activate on those sort of cases, but it would be a little broken as a general game mechanic, as you said.
The shields activating on the chance of an enemy's defeat by shotgun would be annoying, although one potential way it could be implemented is having the shield activate on a potentially dangerous move, but instead of completely canceling the move it brings up an "are you sure?" prompt. If you hit yes, the move proceeds, and you roll the dice... if you hit no, the shield is still spent, and it goes back to the 'select a move' phase.
Again, just a suggestion, maybe not easy to code, but it would be a good thing for game flow in my opinion.
You should add something like a minimap of the board while selecting cards
Genius design, lots of fun, people complaining about discovered mate have only themselves to blame for not paying attention to the board and need to GIT GUD. It's based on chess, people. You destroy the piece between you and an enemy rook, you deserve to fail. Maybe NOT destroy that piece? XD
In a rougelike game having a second of not paying attention end your run is not very fun.
"rougelike" LOL
In a ROGUElike, paying attention to what's happening and solving it like a puzzle is the whole point.
I'm not denying the point of the game, I'm saying that a moment of not following it causing massive punishment is not very fun.
Imagine if Dark Souls was roguelike game. With no practice for the bosses you'd hardly ever progress. "GIT GUD" shouldn't apply to roguelike games, as there is little to no time for you to practice the unexpected one thing that you were expected to know before apparently.
There are going to be a lot of people coming from the game jam either not knowing how chess works, or not having paid enough attention to it to know about discovered mate. The frustration received from being punished for a game mechanic they did not know about is understandable, and should be prevented in some way.
And there already is a way to prevent it - the shields. If you make some stupid move by say, not seeing a piece all from across the board, not realizing you are being attacked, or just misclicking, the game will highlight the attacking pieces and spend a shield, instead of saying "GIT GUD" and ending your run. So a harder to notice possible attack should suddenly do otherwise? Just doesn't make much sense to me.
You're asking the developer to tackle a significant alteration to the game design as a result of a perfectly-fair challenge that might trip some players up ONCE, TOPS, if they're, you know, actually learning the game. And yes, it's an alteration. I mentioned this elsewhere - shields are NOT a way to prevent that "already", and I'll explain why: shields stop you from doing something potentially suicidal on YOUR turn due to enemy attack ranges at that moment, based on your attempt to move or not move. If you've destroyed an interposed piece and opened yourself to attack, it's now THEIR turn. It's too late for a shield. You had your chance to not be careless with a firearm [there's a life lesson in there, but I digress] and you reaped what you sowed. For a shield to stop that, the game would need to have a far more complicated mechanism that looks at what you're shooting at and calculating every possible combination of destroyed piece resulting from it, and then trigger a shield if there's the slightest chance any of those combinations could be lethal. If the dev wants to do that, more power to them - it'd be nice for me to not have to burn through shields before taking a shot 100% guaranteed to result in my survival despite sitting in an attack range (which is how I know the game doesn't currently calculate potential damage dealt when shields trigger). But if I were them, I'd remove shields from the game entirely before I'd even think of doing that! The player is the gamemaker's apprentice, and if they stop learning due to overdependence on the training wheels, then the wheels need to go.
Besides, needing to see the consequences of your moves in advance is part and parcel of chess - why should this game be any different? Frankly, I find it alarming how many people are complaining here about losing a game because of a mistake they made, demanding the game be changed to prevent that mistake (especially those that know losing that way is fair). It's like they don't even know what "game" means. Chess is already super polite in preventing someone moving into check (which I assume is why this game has shields in the first place); try going on a chess forum and suggesting the rules of chess be altered, with moving into ANY mate-in-one being similarly prevented. See where that gets you. But that's literally the non-digital version of what you're asking for. Feel silly yet?
If chess itself isn't up someone's alley, I don't know why they'd be hanging around here at all. It's not like there aren't several thousand other roguelikes out there. Heck, this same dev has another.
As for your comments on "practice", two things: first, "not being oblivious" isn't the sort of thing to which "practice" really applies; second, the entire arcade-game generation would like a word about what you think "practice" entails. Starting another run IS practice. To imply otherwise is so far beyond my comprehension not just of roguelikes but ALL games of all types, digital and otherwise, that I can't respond at all. For that reason, I'll be taking my leave of this conversation now. I hope what I was able to respond to has been educational.
If you move into a space seen by an enemys piece they will be able to attack you on their turn. This is no different for destroying a piece, the enemy can now see you, and will attack on their turn. Why would shields protect you from one easy to see scenario and not the harder to see one? It's hard to blame the player for being oblivious to something they didn't know about, even if it was a "learning experience" for them. All that "game mechanic" causes is needless frustration.
Seeing the consequences of your moves is a part of chess that's true, but this game is already different with shields protecting you from being careless.
I find a valid way to lose is not looking for a synergy in your pre-round upgrade choices, being forced into a situation where you have to take risks and failing to be lucky. But all situations where shields apply are ones where you are careless, and not being careless, again as indicated by the shields , is not part of being skilled.
The mechanic would not be hard to implement either. Just assume the piece you attacked is gone and check for enemy line of sight.
I got some ideas for you, up to you what you do with them.
Expanded maps, say for like extra challenge, such as three player chess, or the three layer chess.
A perk that tells you what will put you into checkmate before you move, as one of the selectable rewards.
Discovered checkmate feels so garbage, especially since the game gives you shields. Great game, but discovered checkmate is a shit mechanic.
We are also hit with a surprise mechanic when using cards, since we aren't told what piece will ALSO move when we use one.
7/10
um...If the white king is dead shouldn't i go to the next floor?
I haven't bought the game but I think the bug fixes are only in the full game... I mean, why put effort into the demo? It's only a demo after all.
Hey can you make Wololo upgrade it will give player a chess piece what i come up is this
Rock : Shooting canon range 4 and the damage 2 in the center of hit and 1 for + direction then the rock cannot move for 1/2 turn. the shot cannot target enemy behind another chess piece
bishop : can attack sideway for 2 damage and 1 damage in the pierce side
pawn : dealing 2 damage and can immediately move after attack can upgrade to another chess piece when reaching enemy end line
knight: dealing 2 damage for each enemy between the L moveset
Queen : each round can take 2 hit from enemy piece without die so it mainly to blocking attack, refreshed for each round
if the wololo chess piece die they will gone forever or can resurrect after 1/2 round up to you dev for balance
This game would be good but the fact that you die when destroying a piece with another piece behind it really completely ruins the experience. If folly shields are a thing i don't understand why that isn't. So for now, this game is really unfun to play.
Impressive! ❤️
This game look fun
I wish I could play this game on Linux or at least a demo
You can. Just import it into steam and force it to use proton, or just run wine on it directly.
I would like to see this game in the App Store! Please!
Bruh don't rush
The dev probably only know how to make game on pc and not on other platform
I suck at this game...but I love it! I don't love sucking, but this is a special combination
set it up for mac pls!!!!! id love to play it on my way to work
Try to run it through wine. That works on Linux
Well you already had my 5 star review and a share on twitter but the update is really good so here I am ^^
Good luck for the steam release o/
The demo got me hooked instantly, I might buy the full version but there is no linux build. Definitely would buy if there was.
Hi! A linux build is planned and should be out in a few weeks :) I can run it with wine and proton in the meanwhile!